Yes, It’s Worth The Effort!

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Steve:
We've been talking for some time about the employee experience and how it can affect the customer experience, but is it really worth all that effort?

Suzanne:
So instead of just having a consultant come in for a one time analysis where you're looking at what your customers are saying and what your employees are saying, we want to do it in a more frequent way, ongoing, so that you can measure it, and you can actually start to see improvements for your employees and for your customers.

Steve:
Let's talk about the value of combining the employee and customer experience on this episode of The CX Leader Podcast.

Announcer:
The CX Leader Podcast is produced by Walker, an experience management firm that helps our clients accelerate their XM success. You can find out more at walkerinfo.com.

Steve:
Hello everyone! I'm Steve Walker, host of this episode of The CX Leader Podcast, and thank you for listening. It's never been a better time to be a CX leader, and we explore topics and themes to help leaders like you develop great programs and deliver amazing experiences for your customers. It's a subject on which we've dedicated several episodes, employee experience, and we've even covered how to effectively combine CX and EX, a subject for which Walker released a report that you can find on Walkerinfo.com. Yes, a shameless plug for a great report nonetheless, but we haven't really explored the value of combining employee and customer experience, and is it even worth it? And what challenges can I expect? Well, cut to the chase. We think it is worth it. And so does my guest. Suzanne Scharer is a product scientist at Qualtrics, the world leading experience management platform that we at Walker are proud to call partners. Suzanne, welcome and thank you for being a guest on The CX Leader Podcast.

Suzanne:
Thank you. Steve, I'm so excited to talk about employee experience and customer experience and the impact it can have on business outcomes.

Steve:
Well, I can't believe that you've never been a guest on our podcast before, have you?

Suzanne:
No, but I'm excited to be part of it today.

Steve:
Well, you know, you're one of the most engaging and smart people I've ever met on this topic. And I you know, I've known you for a couple of years now, so I can't believe that we haven't done this before, but I'm grateful that we're doing it now, so…

Suzanne:
Yes, it's a perfect, timely conversation for right now.

Steve:
Well, before we get into the topic, which I'm really excited about, it's something we've we've talked about for a long time. Just give us a little bit about your background and how you got to Qualtrics and then evolve that into your role at Qualtrics today.

Suzanne:
That's great. So my background has been client facing for the last 17, 18 years in sales and trading, in marketing and consulting and now in tech. And so as someone in a client facing role, of course, I'm concerned with measuring my performance in CSAT or NPS and and how my clients are perceiving my work. But really, over the last ten years, when I worked as a management consultant, I started to hone in on client projects around improving employee experiences or improving customer experiences. So when I joined Qualtrics almost five years ago, it made perfect sense for me to join the technology leader that thinks about experience management in a really unique way. And so I work in a product organization right now, and I've helped develop what we call CrossXM. For our purposes, we're going to call it customer experience plus employee experience or CX plus EX. I know from a profession, from my professional background that EX is very important and CX is very important. What we're able to do now is to combine that data so we can understand the intersection, so that we can make change in an organization, so that if employee outcomes are improved and customer outcomes are improved. And so it's a really exciting time to be in the industry and to help our clients improve experiences for those two very important stakeholder groups.

Steve:
Well, this is why I was so excited to have you on the program, because this is something that I've thought, you know, should have happened and could have been possible, have happened many, many years ago. And I think for those of us who have been around, you know, I'm more of a CX person by background, but, you know, there's certain types of businesses where it's very difficult to separate the customer experience from the employee experience. In fact, like in high, high touch service businesses, a lot of what the customer experience is, is really being delivered by employees. So this makes perfect sense. But just to set the framework and just to to make sure, let's talk about the basics of, as you said, CX plus EX. What are kind of the basic factors there?

Suzanne:
So the idea here is that these types of linkage analysis are not new or controversial or anything. It's just the way that they've been done. In the past companies have looked at CX and EX together at a, you know, in a bespoke way with a very custom one time analysis that has given them insights into that point in time. The reason we're having this conversation is because Walker has been an important part of how Qualtrics and our clients can use technology in a more repeatable and holistic way. So instead of just having a consultant come in for a one time analysis where you're looking at what your customers are saying and what your employees are saying, we want to do it in a more frequent way. Ongoing so that you can measure it and you can actually start to see improvements for your employees and for your customers.

Steve:
Yeah. Those two things really do work together. Right. We're not out of alignment here. I think most customers want to treat the people that are providing the service to them well. And I think high 90s percents of employees want to try to do a good job for customers. So it's not an either or. It's a and both. Right?

Suzanne:
Yes. And there's that old adage of, you know, happy employees make happy customers. And we could probably say the inverse. And so what we're able to do now is to use technology to make it easier to understand what the drivers are, that the employees are controlling and can handle that improve customer experiences. Which is why, Steve, you said you're a CX guy, but if you really want to be a CX guy, you also have to be an EX guy, right?

Steve:
Yeah. I mean, that's that's kind of how I got to be interested in this CrossXM concept is that the two really aren't separated. They're really connected. And particularly again, I think we'll get into this, but there's some certain industries and applications where it's just totally essential.

Suzanne:
Yes. And we can actually touch on that right now because I'm thinking about the best places for this, are companies that have employees and customers that interact directly. And you already touched on some of this. So we're thinking about hospitality, retail, restaurant, any company that has a call center, we're thinking about banks. So there are so many practical applications where that front line employee has such an impact on the customer. There are also some ways that we're seeing this in kind of a nontraditional way in B2B. And so there are a lot of companies today in so many different industries that could really benefit from looking at this data together and not in silos.

Steve:
Yeah, I'll break that down even a little further. I mean, some of this I've borrowed from you already, but this concept of a distributed business model. So think about maybe a franchisee that has 20 or 25 fast food restaurants. The customers of each restaurant are unique and the employees at that restaurant are unique. So what this entrepreneur has is 20 laboratories to discover how to improve customer and employee experience simultaneously going on if all the data were to be accumulated.

Suzanne:
Correct. And if that if that person had the resources, they could improve everything at all 20 restaurants. But we know that's not the case. And so what we can share is these are the three places where you could start to improve. And so that's where think the power of this is. And instead of just doing it in a bespoke way, let's do it every year or let's do it twice a year. So that way you have real time feedback that you can act on.

Steve:
Yeah. Or if I might even suggest maybe once a year you do an in-depth study and maybe quarterly you pulse check it just to make sure you're making some improvements in those three key areas that you're trying to move the needle on, so…

Suzanne:
Absolutely. If we had unlimited budgets, we could do, you know, we could do this a lot more, you know, a lot more frequently and take a lot of action. But we know that's not the case today in today's environment.

Steve:
Well, there's there's one case study I can always quote. And it's my own company. You know, we're a service provider and and our clients provide services. And we adopted that concept on our EX study where we do a, you know, a big EX25 once a year. And, you know, actually you can move the needle on things in 90 days. So if you quarterly pulse check, you know, and you were trying to improve, say, your communication to employees and you've implemented some steps to do that, it should start to show up in your data 90 days later, so.

Suzanne:
Yes. Absolutely.

Steve:
Yeah. But now I would say that we don't always do that. But again, that that's sort of the accountability of, of this kind of measurement is if you take action, you should be able to observe some differences.

Suzanne:
So exactly, it's such an important part of this is to not just generate the insights like what is the data telling us, but it's how to act and then measure so that you can start to see those improvements, and also so that you can continue to build trust with your employees so that they can see changes in their everyday life, which helps build the relationship with the company.

Steve:
Yeah, I think I don't know if it's I think it is a standard EX question, but there's a question in the survey that says, how likely am I to believe that this feedback is going to create change? That's a great metric, by the way.

Suzanne:
Yes, yes. And I think that if you were asking that question annually or even quarterly, depending on how that employee is feeling, you're going to get a good sense of how you know that that trust building with the organization. We ask that question at Qualtrics think it's part of the EX25.

Steve:
Yeah, I think it is too. I just but, you know, where I was going with that is if employees or customers for that matter, see that you're actually acting on the data, you're going to get this virtual cycle of feedback, and so.

Suzanne:
Exactly, kind of at the top, how we talked about the inverse happy customers. Happy employees make happy customers, happy customers make happy employees.

Steve:
So let's talk a little bit about the, you know, first of all, the challenges of why we haven't accelerated this to date. I think there's some critical ones. And then talk a little bit about where we're at with technology and why we've gotten to scale now. You mentioned like if budgets were unlimited. Yeah, 20 years ago, they were not allowing you to capture this much data. But, you know, the price of data keeps coming way down. So so just talk a little bit about why maybe companies haven't committed to this in the past, and then why is it possible today to do that?

Suzanne:
Yes, I am a recovering consultant. So I've got a framework for three challenges that I think of top of mind. The first challenge with doing this is the quality and quantity of data. And so we know and and Steve, you know this firsthand that the maturity of a lot of companies CX programs isn't quite there yet EX and CX are, you know, great programs that when implemented well, the insight can be so valuable. But it's still a practice that's up and coming, I would say, for a lot of our clients, of course, in a variety of industries. So we need the quality of the data to be there. We need to ask high quality questions, driver questions to employees to really understand how they're feeling. We also need to make sure that we're asking the right questions to our customers at the right time. So the. Design of the survey is really important, and we also want to make sure that we have the right quantity of data. And this one feels a little bit more outside of our control. So that's the first challenge to making sure that this analysis can be set up and to be statistically significant.

Suzanne:
The second challenge is around stakeholder engagement and alignment. So when I talk with my clients, I ask, do your CX and EX teams talk? Do you have any shared leaders? Do you have shared metrics? Are you willing to share your data together to then work together to make meaningful improvements in your organization? CX and EX are really siloed today. And so best in class organizations have groups that are talking to each other, and that's where we've seen the most benefit. And the third challenge is making it a priority to act and then measure. So I'm sitting at a tech company and we can provide a great technology experience with great services, like with our partners at Walker. But we can't force the client to act on the insights and have the budget, the time, the expertise to act and measure. And so those are some of the challenges that we're dealing with today. But as the technology improves and we can get faster to insights, then we can free up these leaders times time so that they can work together collaboratively to improve the experiences of their employees and their customers.

Steve:
I love those three kind of the quality and the quantity. I think, again, technology and things are improving that the silos is a real deal. It's cultural. Sometimes it's turf, it's politics. But that's why we have to be higher up in the organization so we can get beyond some of that, because there's such gold in putting those two data sets together. And I had to chuckle, kind of like, you know, do you have shared metrics? Do you share the data? I mean, it's pretty amazing how, you know, again, that's a sign of how immature we are in some of our data.

Suzanne:
Yes. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. This is new and this is different. And so for, you know, leaders who have been around a while, it may take a few extra steps to, you know, be able to combine some of this information. That's also why it works well on the Qualtrics platform, because for so many of our clients, especially clients that we work with Walker on, they have their EX data and their CX data already in one platform. We can access it in an anonymous way. It's safe, it's secure, and that's how we can move forward to get that, to get to the insights faster.

Steve:
Yeah, I think that's where I've seen the big breakthrough in. One of the reasons why we're excited about our partnership with Qualtrics is that, you know, the the security of this kind of data is critical. No company wants their customer and employee data exposed. So that's really big. And then just the omnichannel ability to pull it from so many different places and put it in one platform and pull it together is huge, huge breakthroughs.

Steve:
Hey, my guest on the podcast this week is Suzanne Scharer. She's a product scientist at our partners at Qualtrics. Fascinating discussion about the possibilities of putting your customer experience to data with your employee experience data, a topic that we've bounced around on the podcast for many, many times. But today we're really having an MBA type class on if you're a CX pro and you want to take your program to the next level, you ought to be thinking about CX plus EX. So I know we we each have a couple of anecdotes and we've started to go there, but let's talk about some of the examples and just put a little color on this concept of what kind of insights could an executive CX or an EX pro put together, if they really embrace the philosophy of CrossXM?

Suzanne:
Yes. This is the this is the fun work. So we have spent the last 18 months working with our client Adidas or Adidas. I never know how to pronounce it. I'm in. I'm in the US, so I usually say Adidas. But when I talk to my colleagues in Germany, they say Adidas. What do you think?

Steve:
I have a really good friend whose daughter works for them over in is it Stuttgart or Munich in marketing? And yeah, they say Adidas.

Suzanne:
So we're going to go with Adidas for this conversation. So we worked with them for the last 18 months. They have been a critical partner in the development of our product. And the reason the our partnership with Adidas works so well is that they have a great use case. They have hundreds of retail stores across the world where they have employees interacting with customers in person. They have rich CX and EX data. And when we put their data together to understand what the EX drivers of CX outcomes were, what we realized is that there were three main drivers of the employee experience that impacted store NPS, and that's their outcome. So those three drivers were the associate had the right training for their job. The associate received feedback from their manager and the associate understood the expectations of their role. So in those stores where those EX drivers were high, we also saw a high store NPS. So what this meant was to the EX leaders at Adidas who were working with is that there were some places to start and some places in opportunities to dig in. So what Adidas did is they had a relationship with their retail academy. That's the part of the organization that manages the retail stores, and together they decided that training would be the best place to start. So what this what this turned into was share your rich data with us. Let's identify the top drivers that impact what you're measuring and tracking, which is your store NPS. And then let's go work on and prioritize one of those main pieces. And so we have been so excited to partner with them on their training program, because we see that as a way to improve store NPS, which then also turns into higher revenue per store.

Steve:
I was going to go there, so I. I assume that this CX plus EX could equal some O-data improvement, correct?

Suzanne:
Exactly. So I can't change the numbers because um, but what we were able to do is we were able to take in revenue and other operational data and say that each quarter you could see this dollar improvement if you get these stores up to parity with the the average NPS that you're seeing. So it was some really unique analysis that helps understand why you want to invest in using this, you know, this this intersection of data. Because again it goes back to how do you justify, you know, these new priorities or how do you justify the business case for a new training program. And that's where we were able to to put the dollars in so that it made sense to upward leaders.

Steve:
That's a great use case. You mentioned call center. Is there anything you could share there? Maybe because I know a lot of our listeners have call centers.

Suzanne:
Yes, yes, we've been working with a variety of different types of clients that have call centers, airlines and also financial services. Some of the things that we've found out is that a lot of the EX drivers relate to, can I be my authentic self at work and do I have the, um, the technology, the processes in order to handle clients? Um, you know, inquiries fast. A lot of this is around resolution, resolution time and, and the right resolution for the customer. And so we're starting to see some of those EX drivers really, really take place in these in these call centers.

Steve:
You know, when somebody calls a call center, usually they have a problem and they want a solution or they have a question and they want information. And we tend to use like call resolutions or time in the queue. And if you can match up the customer data, like did they solve your problem? Did they answer your question that that's really the key bottom line right?

Suzanne:
Yes. And that's why it's so critical when you think about a company with a call center that that post transactional survey has the right questions. So that way we can match it up with how that employee felt about the call. Um, and so in in the call center, this is a really great application. We're also starting to see applications in health care. I didn't mention that initially, but just thought about health care because we were talking about how critical the the, you know, the privacy of the data from the employee and also from the patient. And so we've done some work in health care. And what we've found is that in, um. In an example of retirement communities, we found that locations where the employees could act in their, you know, act in good faith to solve the problem fast. Those locations had higher likelihood to recommend. And when you think about health care, we're thinking about post-Covid or thinking about a time period where now employees, whether it be nurses or practitioners, health care givers, they have the opportunity to work within some more flexible structures. And so when they can use their, you know, use their own knowledge and skill set and processes to act faster, we find that the the customer or patient is more likely to recommend that that facility.

Steve:
I'm really glad you brought up health care because I think that's the ultimate. It is nearly impossible to separate the patient experience from the caregiver experience. And again, a shameless plug for our our report that folks can download on on this topic EX plus CX at walkerinfo.com. But we use a health care provider. It's actually a firm that outsources a lot of the non-medical services at a hospital. Think food service, maintenance, trash parking because again, the patient experience is not just the doctors and nurses, right? It's the food. It's the welcome. It's the parking. It's the guest, you know, and and to the patient there, they might be interacting with 15, 20 people over the course of their procedure. So you can't just go to like what the HIPPA outcomes are.

Suzanne:
That's right. That's right. So I think that there are so many new and important use cases that is really going to expand over the next, over the next couple of years.

Steve:
Yeah. Well let's go there. So you're immersed in this. I just pretend like I'm interested in this and I actually am because, you know, again, what you're saying is the stuff that we've dreamed about for a couple of decades and now it's starting to happen. But where's this thing going? What's what's the future? What's what's what are we going to kind of see in the next couple of years?

Suzanne:
Yes. So there's a lot to be excited about and have two things specifically that I'd love to share. And the first one is going to sound just so timely, which is AI. So what that means is our case is specifically around generative AI. So we are building into our platform an opportunity for AI to interpret the insights and the results so that they can build recommendations automatically for action. So we are training models so that they can look at the EX drivers and the CX outcomes and make recommendations based on the industry or the client type, so that the EX teams can take action right away. So we're really excited about that piece. The second one I want to mention is about this technology and this, this work can lead to defining a business case for investment in employees. And we know that in companies the investment in employees is is paramount. Let's use this in these insights and and opportunities to make change so that we can make experiences better for our employees, better for our customers. And you can improve your bottom line as we start to see results of your of your business outcomes.

Steve:
I love that that companies cannot over invest in their customer and employee experience, but there's probably some there's some resources that could be better allocated. And these sorts of systems can inform that in a very meaningful way. You were talking about the act and measure process. You know, people are just too busy to actually do something that might improve the employee or customer experience. Well, what would that be?

Suzanne:
Yeah, I think ten years ago but just sending a survey to employees checks a box.

Steve:
Yeah.

Suzanne:
But we are not in that. We are not in that space anymore. As we think about the war on talent. Wait, I hate that I just used that cliche term, but it's real. And employees have have choice. And so let's let's make deliberate actions that impact employees that also drive customer outcomes.

Steve:
Suzanne, we've reached that point of the podcast where I ask every guest for their take home value. This could be a restatement of something you've already had or have have said or reinforcement. Or maybe it's a new concept, but the concept is what could a pro do? Take back to the office after they've listened to this podcast? Maybe they're driving into work right now listening to it, or they're on the treadmill getting fired up for today. Know what can they take from this podcast to apply right away? And. And move them down the down the road towards a better CrossXM.

Suzanne:
I love this and I would like to share the idea of starting small. So you may lead a CX program for a large enterprise company. You have different segments of customers. You have different groups of employees. But the idea here is to start small. What is one population of employees that interact with customers that you could start to measure and act upon? And so what this means is finding a place that has some stakeholders who are already invested in this, in this group. It means starting to determine how employee experience is measured and customer experience is measured. And so to start to do some research so that you can have one unique use case or an opportunity to think about the importance of impacting this specific group of employees so that it impacts this specific group of customers. We can boil the ocean for you. And I've done that in, you know, in consulting work in the past. But my best advice for CX leaders today would be to start small.

Steve:
That applies not only to this case, but a lot of cases. You know, the longest journeys begin with the first few steps and you got to get up and get going and quick wins. Cherry picking. You know, we're looking for some people that already are inclined this way who you know, I call them enlightened executives. If there's one group in the company that you know, where the CX pro knows that they've got somebody that's kind of innovative in this way. So excellent advice extends not only to this topic, but to many others. Suzanne, thank you for being a great guest on The CX Leader Podcast. I hope you'll come back again sometime.

Suzanne:
I'd love to. Steve, thanks to you and to your team and all the folks at Walker that have been great thought partners with us as we think about CX plus EX.

Steve:
It's been a real rewarding partnership and one that I think is making a difference. So and if anybody would like to continue the conversation, they can find you on LinkedIn, I think?

Suzanne:
Absolutely.

Steve:
And Suzanne Scharer. But it's spelled S C H A R E R, at Qualtrics. So I'm sure you'd be love to hear from anybody that would like to learn a little bit more about this topic.

Suzanne:
Absolutely. Thank you. Steve.

Steve:
And Suzanne really is an expert in this field, and so I'm so pleased that we could get her on the podcast. And Qualtrics has world leading technology that can make this happen. So we are grateful to have her on the podcast today. And if you want to talk about anything you heard on this podcast or about how Walker can help your businesses customer experience, feel free to email us at podcast@walkerinfo.com. Remember to give The CX Leader Podcast a rating through your podcast service and give us a review. Your feedback will help us improve the show and deliver the best possible value to you, our listener. Check out our website cxleaderpodcast.com to follow the show and find all of our previous episodes. Almost 300 now they're organized by series. You can search for topics that you look for, and also has a link to our blog that we update regularly and contact information. You can drop us a note, let us know how we're doing. The CX Leader Podcast is a production of Walker. We're an experience management firm that helps companies accelerate their XM success. You can read more about us at walkerinfo.com. Thank you for listening and remember, it's a great time to be a CX leader. So get out there and take those small steps and start putting some of your CX and EX data together, and we will see you again next time.

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